Air Ride + 620s?

[kansascity1]

The carrier bearing x-member is a bitch on both trucks if you want to lay out; meaning it either has to be shaved down or replaced with something else.

I hear ya, I'm getting ready to build my crossmember to fix that. That damn thing is the reason my truck sits like this.

[BEEBANI]

beebani: why did you switch to a 720 set up? will the stock kingpins not go low enough? or was is merely to get the balljoints?

 

After spending several hours and almost getting hit by a flying dogbone (3000 psi hydraulic press) the last time I had to replace kingpins; I decided that balljoints would be a better option. Plus they came with disc brakes. My good friend Glenn hooked me up with a set of '85 720 front spindles/hubs/etc. so I figured why not!?

[]2eDeYe]

Not to mention that you can use drop spindles, vented rotors and frontier calipers with the balljoints :D

[Cruzn620]

if you are going to bag the truck and are worried about your bed, 2 options, notch cover, or do the more difficult body drop on the bed. body dropping the bed can be done a couple of different ways, you can either cut out the floor, raise it up, then weld and seam seal it back in, or you can section out the inner skin of the bed (prefered method) and weld it back together like that. This is how i am going to do my bed, because i'm doing a wood bed on mine, and i want all the planks to be flat. i haven't done any measurements yet to see how deep my bed will be when im done, but that isnt a concern of mine. you however, may want to look at that option. just about any reputable (and i mean REPUTABLE) can body drop your bed if you aren't comfortable doing it, but aside from a lot of measuring, there isnt much of a technical aspect to it. im with bee and kansas, mount your bags in the rear on the bars fo sho! you get MUCH better lift and much better ride than over the axle set ups...i have over the axle on my old s-10, and when i rode in my buddies dakota with bags on the bars...different world. there is my opinion

[pope_face]

Thanks for all the replys...

 

Alright, well it looks like if it's going to be done, it'll be done right. I'm keen on getting it done, but as usual it's only the cost that may be a concern... I'll see how much the engine and all runs me first before I commit...

 

kansascity: Thanks for the link to airedout's setup... it looks fairly straight-forward, providing I can get all the measurements. Maybe I'll cheat and ask him...

 

As for notching the bed... I'd probably go with something similar to a body drop, but not quite the same... I like how the Honda pickups have the lockable storage built into the bed. It might be the way to go... I might even be able to move my gas tank up high enough like that, as well as hide the air tank and all.

 

Jason: The whole pope face ordeal is a long story from back when I was an idiot in high school... my real name's Fil.

 

I'm curious as to a couple other things though... With the four-link setup in the rear, does the axle pivot as it moves up and down to adjust for driveshaft angle, or does it stay in one spot? Or does the angle not really change?

 

Also, how much would an airbag setup in the front affect camber? Is there only a small range of heights that will give the proper camber, or is there some way it can be done to get a full range of motion?

[Cruzn620]

your pinion is going to move in a fourlink as you have a range of motion. most people "set" their pinion angle at the ride height that they will be at most of the time. With a good fourlink set up though, your pinion shouldn't change much through the suspension stroke. as far as up front, on the camber, its really going to depend on how you set it up. typically, torsion bar vehicles have a massive amount of camber when layed out, however, myself, i like to ride as low as possible, so i will be building a custom set of control arms to correct that so i dont have such negative camber. Nitto now makes a tire that has a tougher inner sidewall to increase the duration of people who drive with camber. speaking in generalities, if you are going to go with a straight up torsion/bag set up, you are going to have quite a bit of camber. BEE has a sweet control arm set up that he made himself that i like, and he doesnt have too much camber at all, he can point you in the right direction

[dropt98chevy]

I have a bagged 521, that I built myself. If you want it on the ground you are going to have to hack it up. Depending on your wheel and tire combo you might be able to get the back decently low with a small notch below the bed and maybe a 2 link with a panhard bar. You would have to run the bags on the bars though to keep it all under the bed.

2 links have horrible pinion angle change. You can adjust your pinion angle for one height but if you are off any the pinion angle changes dramatically. Also the ride isn't very great bc there is no side to side movement.

[]2eDeYe]

I would hope any link setup you run in the rear has absolutely NO side to side movement. A proper link setup will control pinion angle (keeping the angle constant) throughout the axles range of motion and keep the axle centered under the frame. Side to side movement is bad m'kay....

[]2eDeYe]

Also, a 2-link or radius arm suspension will have quite a bit of anti-squat (or lift when you hit the gas) and is best used in a front suspension (4x4 solid axle) application.

 

PAC has a radius arm style suspension in the rear of his 620 and Nascar runs the same setup (although it's called a truck-arm suspension, derived from the trailing arm setup in 60's era chevy 2wd trucks). So, it is effective in a rear suspension with minimal suspension travel (lowrider baby), but if you want control of your pinion and have alot of travel (10" or so) a 4-link is what you want.

 

If you want control in the corners, better run the numbers and triangulate all 4 links and ditch any thought of a panhard.

To me a panhard is a crutch unless it's used in the front (again in a 4x4 front application) in conjuntion with mechanical steering, as it will push and pull your axle side to side as the axle articulates.

 

Of course, what you can fit under there dictates alot....

[LAYEDOUTB2K]

i think he ment in side to side movement was not that the rear end moves back and forth but when the truck tilts to one side, the links bind up.

[]2eDeYe]

ahhh... :P

[kansascity1]

I personally wouldn't run a 2 link. I f*ckin hate them. My Luv was bagged that way and bag over axle. I absolutely hated how that thing rode and the fact that it ate carrier bearings like it was cool. and as far as the lift issue goes, there wasn't much, about 6 inches, but I think that was partly due to setup. I get quite a bit more now as you can see.

This is at 200psi

[kansascity1]

your pinion is going to move in a fourlink as you have a range of motion.

If it is setup properly it will only be a degree or two throughout the range of motion. even all the lift I get mine only changes 2 degrees.

[pope_face]

Alright, so the final word on rear suspension seems to be four-link... If I go through with this, then I probably won't bother with anything else. I don't mind doing some calculations to sort out the setup, but I'll likely need some help with more details before I really start getting into it.

 

For the front I'd like to have a slightly lowered drive height, but I want to be able to lift it as well. I don't mind a bit of negative camber when it's layed out, but I don't want any camber if it's lifted above the drive height...

 

Jason: What kind of front suspension are you using? It was mentioned above that you're using one from a 720... is that the one, or is it something totally different?

 

I suppose now I've got more concerns about the front suspension than the rear... The engine bay isn't very big as it is, and I'd like to swap the engine. I don't want to find out that my steering or suspension or engine or frame or anything interferes with anything else... There's a lot to cram under the hood, and not a lot of space to do it in...

 

Kansascity: Now THAT is how much lift I want in the back... care to share a bit more about your setup? Does it lay out all the way? And do you have any pics of the inside of the bed and the frame/rear suspension work?

[Cruzn620]

thanks for clearing that up kansas...i realized when i read it back that it was pretty vague!

[Cruzn620]

Pope...if worse comes to worse...you have this forum. i remember about 2-3 years ago, nobody thought you could lay out an s-10 on anything bigger than a 20" wheel, now they have them laying body on 24" wheels. anything can be modified to work, and work correctly. you have a wealth of knowledge on this board at your disposal....we'll all pull together and get you through this thing! if it makes you feel better, im doing a KA swap in my 620 (eventually) and i'll be laying out on 18's...there is room for that in there, trust me. i love the fact that you let us talk you from shockwaves to a full blown badass bag set up!! mini trucking is addictive!

[pope_face]

Hahaha, yeah it is addictive... I have to warn you though, this is all still just a possibility. Fortunately I have a daily so I can afford to take my time with the Dat... I've got a couple things I want to change with the body though, if I do go through with the airbags...

 

I want to do a KA swap as well, but I've got the 521, and from what I know the engine bay is slightly smaller than a 620. I know it can be done, it's just a matter of how much space I'll have left over to fiddle with the suspension and steering.

 

Edit: BTW, I don't think I told you I like the caddy tails on the S10... I was considering doing the same with my Dat, but I figured the lights would be a little too small...

[dropt98chevy]

2eDeYe;31313'']I would hope any link setup you run in the rear has absolutely NO side to side movement. A proper link setup will control pinion angle (keeping the angle constant) throughout the axles range of motion and keep the axle centered under the frame. Side to side movement is bad m'kay....

Side to side as in articulation.

[Cruzn620]

LOL pope...you can always just buy a bunch of u-joints to solve your steering issues! HAHAHAHA

[BEEBANI]

Well pope, the ka dropped right into my 620 like it was meant to be, so I'm sure it won't be that tight inside the 521. The framerails on both trucks are the same in the front, the only thing that will hang you up is sheetmetal and firewall.

[Cruzn620]

sheetmetal and firewall....designed to be cut up and reformed!!!

[pope_face]

Alright, well I suppose I'll focus on getting the engine and doing a test fit, and then go from there... I don't mind hacking into the engine bay, but I'd rather not cut too much into the firewall... I can get comfortable behind the wheel now, but I think if I take out any more room it'll get too small for me to drive.

[kansascity1]

talk to pacific coast datsun, I know he attempted putting a KA in a 521. He might be able to help you.

[pope_face]

Yeah I've looked at a few threads and I know it'll fit, but as far as I know that's with more or less stock front suspension/steering. I'm just not sure if a suspension setup like airedout's or Bee's would interfere with the engine... then again, there's always some way to make something fit...

[kansascity1]

like I said before mine is setup the same way airedout's is and I'm prett sure it would not get in the way of anything. It actually would give you more room than stock suspension. Not much though