Top Motoring/Battle Version LCA Adjusters

[slodat]

I got my set of Top Motoring/Battle Version LCA adjusters from the ole Green Bastard today. I couldn't resist the urge to break out the angle grinders and weld.. so... here are some photos. I used a set of '69 front control arms because they are otherwise not of much use (the bushings are NLA and the Energy Suspension bushings won't work in the early arms).

 

First step (after measuring where I wanted the mount in the arm) was to cut off the old bushing mount:

 

 

Then, I pealed back the two sections, split the "U" shaped section down the top side to help shape it around the round mount. Once I could get it inside the arm, I welded the mount to the arm where they made the best contact. This made the rest pretty easy because it couldn't move in the arm. Next, I split the "U" at its corners to get the arm to wrap around the mount. This split was a slight pie shape so that I had area to weld in.

 

 

I welded the "U" section all the way around before the bottom so there is a ton of weld area to give it all strength. Then, I welded the center of the bottom and flattened the rest against the mount. Welded up the remaining seam and....

 

 

Total time was about an hour. I had a blast doing it. I got good penetration on the welds and I will soon have bulletproof heims at the end of my LCA's to eliminate the binding I currently have running 4.5deg castor and bushings.

[Green Bastard]

Damn, your Dat may be slow but you don't work slow. :) Glad you like them. The alignment shop should really appreciate them.

 

I was thinking about our front suspensions yesterday. They are definitely modified.

 

We take them from being 1 way adjustable as stock (toe only) to 6 way adjustable! (toe, caster, camber, height, track, and dampening) :eek:

 

Crazy.

[Icehouse]

Nice Steve the Engineer, now you can go for 6 degrees of caster :D You have to let me know how it drives!

[71-521]

nice Job!

 

ahhh...Porter Cable...good stuff!

[mklotz70]

Very sweet Steve!! Are there more of the heim pieces available or were those left overs from GB's project? I'd like to get a set and do the same! :)

[mklotz70]

duh....just checked his link and store.....got my answer :)

[slodat]

There is a lot more to this setup than just a heim joint and a couple bolts. It is a very trick setup. The sleeve that is welded to the arm serves as the mounting point on the arm side. The heim is the mounting point on the crossmember side. They are joined by a sleeve that is threaded inside and out. The heim goes inside the arm mount on the outside. This allows the alignment man to simply turn this sleeve to adjust it. Then tighten the lock nuts and you are good to go.

 

The design here is far superior to anything else I have seen. All others require removing the heim joint to adjust. Combine that with the strength of the components and to me there just is no comparison.

 

Easily worth the $$

[mklotz70]

I was thinking the same thing. A heim joint like that is going to be in the neighborhood of $70ea anyway....at least any of the ones that I've found. I'm liking the "do-it-yourself" version :) I'm liking how cheap their caster/camber plates are too. I'm getting to the point that I may just buy some of this stuff and get at least one car "done" so to speak....

[slodat]

I really dig this style setup - give you all of the pieces, and you do the modifying. Allows one to make it their own.

 

I have all of the T3 stuff on the front of my car. I am VERY pleased.

 

It will be a little while before I get them installed. I have to center the front cross member first. I plan to get the EFI running well, then pull the engine/trans, get the crossmember centered, clean up/hide the wiring, re-install engine with new trans & roadster clutch, get aligned, buy new tires.

[qship510]

There is a lot more to this setup than just a heim joint and a couple bolts. It is a very trick setup. The sleeve that is welded to the arm serves as the mounting point on the arm side. The heim is the mounting point on the crossmember side. They are joined by a sleeve that is threaded inside and out. The heim goes inside the arm mount on the outside. This allows the alignment man to simply turn this sleeve to adjust it. Then tighten the lock nuts and you are good to go.

 

The design here is far superior to anything else I have seen. All others require removing the heim joint to adjust. Combine that with the strength of the components and to me there just is no comparison.

 

Easily worth the $$

Not all require the heim to be removed to adjust...

 

http://www.datsun510.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=5612

 

Oh yea, T3 and Troy are not the only ones making adjustable T/C rods either...http://www.datsun510.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=4643

[slodat]

Those look nice. Where do we get them? Availability is key :)

[Duke]

Personally, I don't think that easily adjustable control arms are that big of a deal. Honestly, how often are you going to adjust them...never. I'm guessing that the length will be set initially and then never moved. One major reason is that adjusting camber using the control arms also affects toe, so adjusting it at the camber plate is way easier.

 

I'm not saying that heim joints are a bad idea, I'll most likely be doing a similar setup, but I don't see why everybody gets such a hard on over ease of adjustablity. But now you can get some caster in there (safely, no more bending bolts eh), which will make a difference.

[slodat]

I like the overall ease of installation of the setup. I agree, ease of adjustment is really not a big deal. It is a set once sort of thing. The Battle Version setup is nice because the sleeves that fit between the heim joint and the LCA pivot are a perfect fit, the rod ends are extremely high quality, the mounting sleeve is thick enough that there's no concern about it changing shape while welding.. Overall, was a pretty easy mod to do, thanks to the engineering/parts selection.

 

And, yes, I will not bend my LCA pivots again!

[qship510]

Those look nice. Where do we get them? Availability is key :)

I make them. Availability is always an issue, and these are made to order, custom pieces. The biggest issue is getting cores to build arms on, makes the battle version style items nice (no cores). Availability and time are the biggest hinderences to more widespread marketing and production, but for the people who are understanding and descriminating, the quality has never been challenged. I have met Troy and Gabe (T3) and they have both badmounthed me and my parts, not sure why other than questionable marketing ploys or apprehensive defensiveness. Neither need worry, I'm just one guy who makes parts sometimes to help people and make a few bucks on the side....for now.

[slodat]

Hey qship, your parts look great. Prices?

 

I made my LCA's out of a pair of '69 LCA's I had lying around. They are useless because the bushings for '68-'69 LCA's are long time gone, so guys have to switch to the '70-'73 LCA. Something to think about - you could ask guys if they have any early LCA's for cheap.

 

Sorry to hear people are assholes. Just the way it goes. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from Troy, because I've heard that too many times about him. Gabe has always been very good to deal with - for me.

[qship510]

$200 a pair for any of the LCA's and the T/C rods. On that core thing, I'm not shopping for any. I build limited quantities for people who know me or seek me out, any more than that becomes a burden, takes the joy out of it. Right now I'm not taking orders, not until my 521 and 510 are painted and running.

 

Troy and Gabe aren't assholes, they're businessmen. I'm not a businessman, just a welder. Those guys earn their living selling parts, I started making parts because I couldn't afford them.

 

You know guys, I haven't done this forum mailing list thing for a while (substandard experience), I've gotta say, this is a pretty cool place to talk Datsun, thanks.

[Green Bastard]

$200 a pair for any of the LCA's and the T/C rods. On that core thing, I'm not shopping for any. I build limited quantities for people who know me or seek me out, any more than that becomes a burden, takes the joy out of it. Right now I'm not taking orders, not until my 521 and 510 are painted and running.

 

Troy and Gabe aren't assholes, they're businessmen. I'm not a businessman, just a welder. Those guys earn their living selling parts, I started making parts because I couldn't afford them.

 

You know guys, I haven't done this forum mailing list thing for a while (substandard experience), I've gotta say, this is a pretty cool place to talk Datsun, thanks.

 

Welcome to Ratdat Jerry.

 

This is Jordan, nice to see you around again. I will say that I like your style of adjustable T/C rods. Thats why I have them on my car :) I like the pivot that you incorporate into the control arm end.

 

I will say those freaking nuts are a real pain in the ass to tighten! Whats up with that?

 

 

Not sure if you saw them after I powdercoated all the steel bits.

[qship510]

Hey Jordan. The car looks great with the RS-8's. The nuts are grade 8 staked locknuts. Serve the same purpose as nylock nuts, but aren't suceptable to heat. Tough-to-tighten means they won't loosen on their own! The pivot lets the LCA and the T/C move independantly when aligning to preclude binding (and eliminates machine work). When the caster and LCA length are set, tighten everything up and you're set.

[Green Bastard]

Thanks Jerry for the compliment and the tip on loosening things up when doing the alignment.

 

So nice to have caster adjustment, it does wonders for making the car want to go straight down the road. Gonna try to run my first auto-x since changing the front end this weekend. wooo-hoo.

 

Its amazing how much going to an all heim jointed front end DOSENT make the car any louder or harsh. I am surprised more people don't do it.

[mklotz70]

I started making parts because I couldn't afford them.

 

Amen to that!!! I enjoy building for friends and myself, but once you "have to" make money on it.....it's just another job. hhmm...and since it wouldn't be a job I could sleep and watch movies while doing, I don't want it!!! :)

[slodat]

The exchange between you two (Jerry and Jordan) is what I like about this forum. We are here to enjoy our ratty RATSUN's and contribute what we got (even if it's a damn Saturn (of all things) alternator swap) - so that our like minded compadre's may benefit from our freakishly keen findings.

 

Thanks for playing nicely on the Ratsun playground boys.

 

BTW - Turbo'd EFI'd L-MONSTER coming :)

[]2eDeYe]

mmmmmm turbo L mmmmm

[qship510]

Thanks Jerry for the compliment and the tip on loosening things up when doing the alignment.

 

So nice to have caster adjustment, it does wonders for making the car want to go straight down the road. Gonna try to run my first auto-x since changing the front end this weekend. wooo-hoo.

 

Its amazing how much going to an all heim jointed front end DOSENT make the car any louder or harsh. I am surprised more people don't do it.

I'll second that comment about heims not making a car harsher or louder. As long as everything is tight, nothing is banging, rattling or rubbing against anything else, makes sense!

[Umai Kakudo]

The difference in converting to all rod end suspension links is nothing short of amazing.

 

My brother made TC rods and LCA's for his old 510. He also converted a 300zx strut to use Megan S13 coilovers with 8kg springs! He had an L20 with 5speed installed and we thought the springs would be way too harsh.

 

Driving around on the street the suspension very stiff but not harsh at all soaking up small and large bump smoothly. The Megans on his 510 with 8kg springs were a smoother ride than the Tein HE's with 6kg springs on my S13 (which still had stock control arm bushings)!

 

What we determined is with the TC and LCA converted to rod ends was there was no longer any stiction, binding, or resistance that the stock bushings give. The suspension is free to move through its travel without any binding. It makes your handling very predictable and rock solid.

 

The coilover conversion was also amazing giving full ride height adjustability and full travel with a ton more room for big wheels (running the 5 lug 300zx 7" wide wheels with 215/40/16's and rolled fenders).

 

Jeff/Icehouse bought the coilovers after Brad sold his 510.

 

 

 

 

 

 

More Image Links:

510 Realm KamodoDragon Photo Gallery

 

It is fairly easy to make these kinds of parts if you have the necessary tools (welder, lathe, proper taps, etc.)