IR alternator swap help

[datzenmike]

Everything in this diagram was followed to swap to IR alt in my 710. Diagram matches all wires. Two jumpers were added to the external regulator plug and the Ex. Reg removed. Guess what... when connected up the auto choke relay clicks on and stays on permanently.

 

If you look at the diagram you can see why. The Yellow jumper to the White (goes to the + battery terminal) now supplies power to the auto choke relay coil ... which turns it on. So I want to know why I spent so much time doing this to fine the diagram is wrong!!!!! ??????

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

the dime quarterly writeup has something on this what to do with that circut.

 

I would assume alot of people DONT have automatic choke on 510s thats why its not much of a concern.Sidedrafts!!!!

here:

For those '72 and later 510's that use an electric choke. The choke relay was energized up by the voltage that appeared on the "N" terminal of the alternator. To energize correctly, the relay was designed for the lower voltage (about 6 volts) that appeared on o the "N" while the alternator was turning (engine running).

 

You need to REPLACE the choke relay with a 12V item. Use the WL wire (switched on with the ignition) to power the relay coil. Run a power source - with an inline fuse - from the battery through the relay to power the electric choke/idle solenoid (if fitted). This lessons the current flowing through the ignition switch, and powers up the choke heating coil when the ignition is on.

[datzenmike]

Alright, finally. Thanks Hainz, good going.

[sanitys]

yep, I ran into that exact issue, however I just deleted the choke because i didnt need it. So here the question, does the sense wire really just hook up to constant power instead of switched (w/l)? (wouldn't that just drain the battery over time being hooked up to a constant source?) Heres the 91 hardbody diagram, sorry its just a screen shot.

 

[datzenmike]

If it's just the relay coil then the draw is very slight. The bulb in a test light is enough draw to make them work. But it's not right.

 

What I'll do is disconnect the Yellow wire where it branches off to the relay coil and wire it to the Black/White wire (not shown) from the ignition to the + side of the coil. This will turn the choke heater on only when the motor is running.

 

 

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[Unclejesse88]

Yes, the sense wire does just hook up to battery voltage. At this point the internal regulator is not on. When you start the engine, voltage from the lamp circuit turns on the alternator. On a side note, if you have a key off draw on your rig, and can't find it anywhere, try disconnecting the alternator. If the regulator is bad, it can stay on and draw power through the sense wire. Under normal operation there is no draw on the sense wire with the key off.

[datzenmike]

When all connected up and I put the battery cable on you can hear and feel the choke heater relay clicking. You can see in the diagram that one of the jumpers (White to Yellow) puts 12 volts on it continuous.

[sanitys]

Yes, the sense wire does just hook up to battery voltage. At this point the internal regulator is not on. When you start the engine, voltage from the lamp circuit turns on the alternator. On a side note, if you have a key off draw on your rig, and can't find it anywhere, try disconnecting the alternator. If the regulator is bad, it can stay on and draw power through the sense wire. Under normal operation there is no draw on the sense wire with the key off.

 

finally, what i needed to hear. So from my diagram and the one posted by mike. I just connect the y/r to the w/r? (that one doesnt need an additional switched power?) I really just want to make sure since Ive probably untaped my harness a good 4 times and dont want to do it again.

 

i can mod mikes diagram if it works, but its for using a ka24e w/ alt in a 620.

 

Mike did you read this?

 

http://www.vg30.com/510vg30install.html

 

"Internally regulated alternator conversion

A simple wiring conversion to use an internally regulated alternator can be done to any 510. First, unplug the stock six terminal 510 voltage regulator and plug in a jumper wire from the WHITE wire to the YELLOW wire in the plug where the regulator was connected. Next, plug in a jumper wire from the WHITE and RED wire to the WHITE and BLACK wire in the same plug. Also, be sure that if your car has a choke heater relay you unplug it from the wiring harness! If you go to a high-output alternator it’s also a good idea to replace the charge wire from the alternator with one of heavier gauge. All that's left is to plug in the internally regulated alternator just like the stock one."

[Unclejesse88]

From those two diagrams that looks right. I just installed a kade alternator in my 510. I know you have already modified the harness, but when I installed mine I made a short jumper harness to transition from the T connector to the new style connector on the kade alt. No wire cutting. I had some left over "ford fusion" battery cables obtained from work that I used for my new charge cable. The cable is huge, probably 6-8 gauge, but it already had fusible links in it and even better, was free. I bring this up to remind you to install some fusible links on your new upgraded charge harness. Mine are link datsun factory, and installed at the starter end, but the factory ford setup had the fusible links at the alternator end.

[datzenmike]

This is/has been done on my '74 710 but the wiring looks identical. The stock alternator is 50 amp and the replacement IR alt. is 60 so the old wire is fine for that. The IR alt was basically free and I don't care for the fender regulators. I'm used to the 620's 38amp alt. and thought the older 710 would have about the same but after it was in I found it was 50. No big deal I like the IR and it's from a newer '80 car.

 

sanitys: thanks for the article. Wish I had read it first but no harm done. I'll just disconnect the choke heater relay and wire into the ignition circuit so it goes off with the key.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Mike

Isnt that choke wire 12volts???? If they want less voltage you can always splice on the lower side of the Ballast resisitor to get the 6 volts(that if still running the stock coil and ballast ONLY)Pertronix.

I know most have changed stuff around coils and ignitions but this could work as I seen jeffs 521 with a wire from the bottom side of ballast go to th carb soem where but wasnt a choke.

[Z_Rac3r]

So this thread is simple, however my wiring capabilities are proving to be ridiculous. The previous owner took out the external voltage regulator on my 74 620. And I'm having charging issues. I put a new alternator in it, out of an 81 510, so its got an internal regulator. And the wires the previous owner had spliced together, were the RED and WHITE one with the WHITE and BLACK one which is right, and then they have the YELLOW one with the BLUE and WHITE one?

 

I cant for the life of me find anything in the harness that used to go to the external regulator but I know it had one. I cant find the WHITE wire shown in the diagram below, but this wiring harness looks like its been apart quite a few times. But from what the wiring diagram looks like, its just a circut that goes back to the positive cable on the battery, so I spliced it into the positive wire coming off the starter solenoid (since thats what it looks like the white wire would be going to anyways) and a voltage meter on the battery while running still only says 12v. What am I doing wrong?

 

Sorry in advance wiring is my least experienced field.

 

PLEASE HELP!

[datzenmike]

Hi Megan, I know this won't help but I cut my regulator off the plug, keeping both parts of that plug. Made my splices on the regulator side and plugged it back in.

 

Poke out all regulator wires...

 

Made the splices... Yellow to White.... and White/Black to White/Red

 

Put jumpered wires back into plug...

 

 

Plug back into harness. Nice an neat and if someday I need to switch it back I just remove the plug and plug in the new regulator.

 

 

Can you cut off all the tape on your harness to expose the wires? Possibly the wires were spliced and tapped up?

.

[Z_Rac3r]

ISSUE SOLVED! It occurred to me the charging light bulb could be out, it was, and I soldered the connections on the spliced wires. My "white" wire was actually Black on my car, but I was right, it just needed to be a 12v source.

 

Test drive to the beach, and taking the 620 to the drive in tonight.

[datzenmike]

Drive in? I saw Barry Newman in Vanishing Point when it came out ,at a drive in. Ah the memories. Glad you got 'er.

[GuitarGuy]

Ya so I just got a 77 620 and the previous owner did an ir alt swap I don't have the er fuse box thingy lol forgot name. But I just need a straight answer. Would I go b/w to w/r then the y wire to where

[DanielC]

If your vehicle has a black wire that grounds to the inner fender where the voltage regulator was, you must keep that ground wire.   It connects body (cab) sheet metal to the engine, and battery.  Make sure the previous owner did not remove this wire.

[GuitarGuy]

What's the black wire look like is big and flat?

[GuitarGuy]

What's the black wire look like is big and flat?

[DanielC]

The wire is round, like all Datsun wires.  It is a pretty heavy gauge, the alternator connection has a brass open eye, and I think the voltage regulator end is a closed eye, with a 5/16 hole.

[GuitarGuy]

Pics would be awesome please.