Which to buy: Miller MIG w/Spool Gun or AC/DC TIG Welder?

[slodat]

I'm about to splurge on some tools for the shop in the next month so that I can tool up for the 521 build. I have a 110v Miller MIG that is awesome for thin stuff and I intend to keep it for the light weight work. I don't feel it has enough current output to do the chassis stuff I have coming on my 521.

 

I can get a Miller 230v MIG with a aluminum spool gun complete for about the same price as their new hobbyist ac/dc TIG. Either welder would be good for the chassis work. I'd like to be able to weld my intercooler piping down the road and feel I can get acceptable results with either setup.

 

If I buy the 220v MIG now, I will probably buy a bigger Miller TIG (Synchrowave 200 or 250) down the road in a year or so when I'm wanting to spend money on tools..

 

I can see how having both welders in the shop would be versatile and useful. For now, I need to choose one or the other.

 

Anyone have any advice?

Edited November 11, 2009 by slodat

[DISLEXICDIME]

as you know i dont know much about welding but cant you do more down the road with the tig .

[72240z]

I'd go with a tig but I'd want a plasma cutter/tig combo. That 110 miller can do some thicker stuff alright if you torch the metal prior for better penetration. I know its extra work and maybe you already knew, just throwing it out there.

[izzo]

mig = pretty easy welding, even on thin stuff

 

tig is better for alum/stainless iirc.

[yellowdatsun]

Depends on what your trying to do, cost between the two is really a moot point. Mig is very fast and looks pretty good, Tig is *very* slow but looks beautiful. If your welding motorcycle frames or intercooler piping get a Tig, if your doing normal chassis work on a car get the Mig.

 

FWIW my 110V Lincoln Mig works just fine for chassis work. So given the fact that you already have a Mig, just buy the Tig. Not much sense in having two Migs.

 

Also, I personally wouldn't buy a spool gun, they make the gun very heavy. The more dexterity you have with any welder, the better your welding will be.

[Duke]

One piece of advice that I have for buying a TIG is to try and get one that is water cooled. I have used both an air and a water cooled setup and by far the water cooled is better. It welds much more consistently and there is no chance of burning up the torch, which is something to consider when you are doing thicker chassis type stuff. Another downside to the aircooled torch is that when doing a bunch of welding at one time, you must take a break every once in a while to let the torch cool.

 

I am a bit baised, but I really think that a TIG is much more versitile and produces a better finished product than a MIG.

[Madness]

 

 

 

sorry... had to. :D

[jesusno2]

Steve you'd be pretty much wasting your money on both if your planing for aluminum. The wire feed is a fine machine but miller spool guns are junk. That tig is kinda weak for the money you'd prolly max it out on trying to weld anything of 3/16 aluminum. If ya want a nice mig seach for old miller single phase machines they spit wire 2 times better then any of these newer machinces. As far as tig welders go that 250 syncrowave is a bad mofo! Defenetley worth every penny.

[oldsklminitrk]

I just bought a new TIG and MIG combo.I could have gotten the spool gun but Im with everyone else its junk.If you already have a MIG stick with what ya got....why cause I have 3 MIG welders now.I started with flux core and then moved up to gas shielded and now I have the MIG and TIG combo.So bascically I have two welders I dont use that collect dust.I say keep your MIG you have and get the TIG.

[mklotz70]

I think if you get the nicer mig setup, you won't really need or use the 110v unit. I turned my 110v rig on yesterday for the first time in 6mo? I could have easily shut off the dryer and plugged in the welder...but I didn't. Anyway...... the new machine will do the thin stuff with more control than the 110v machine.

 

My only concer with either of them is the duty cycle. More so with the tig. With the mig, you weld fast enough that you don't have the trigger pulled very long. But...with the tig....could be another story.

 

How many amps is the 110v unit you have? Have you thought about a different gas?

 

Don't forget....with either rig...you'll need to pony up for the argon bottle for the aluminum. Better figure that into the cost.

[datsunrides]

While the application is a little different, I use a Miller Maxstar at work, mostly for welding pipe and brackets and such (mostly carbon and stainless). The tig is nice for aluminum and stainless (and carbon also) and you can also do stick with it for heavier work, such as frame fab. (7018 low hy works well and is less "messy" than 6010) I have not had issues welding 6" .083 316L stainless tube and 4" sch.40 carbon steel pipe (ER70S) with an air cooled torch in a semi-production capacity. I personally prefer the foot pedal over the thumb control, but that is personal preference. The nice thing about the Maxstar is it's small and portable, but still pretty powerful and runs on 110.

 

Mark

[thisismatt]

tig++

[jesusno2]

Maxstar is a nice rig. I didn't notice that that tig had the thumb wheel lol what a joke. I'd rather have nothing! A footpedal is a must have for aluminum!!!! Can't stress that enough aluminum gets hot hot! And when your welding thin alloy,stainless,its easy to control the heat that way.

I must admit though tigs are slow going but have their place in a fab shop. Like I said if it was me and I was in the market for a new mig. The older miller single phase units like the millermatic 200 or the millermatic 35( which is what I have) are great machines! Best short arc machines ever made. If you want a spool gun and have the money the best ones I've ever used are cobra or python push pull guns they work extremley well but their big money! .

[slodat]

as you know i dont know much about welding but cant you do more down the road with the tig .

 

I plan to buy a AC/DC Tig at some point. Really amazing deals pop up on craigslist from time to time for nearly new $5000 Synchrowave's with cooler and water cooled torch for $2k - $3k. In my mind I'll have a nice, bigger 230V MIG and a AC/DC TIG down the road.. Using the TIG for visible pretty work and aluminum.

 

I'd go with a tig but I'd want a plasma cutter/tig combo. That 110 miller can do some thicker stuff alright if you torch the metal prior for better penetration. I know its extra work and maybe you already knew, just throwing it out there.

 

I'm about to order this 40a plasma cutter. I have actually been to their store in Mesa, AZ. Very cool guys that seem like they are really doing their best to offer good service and support. The price can't be beat. Considering this is a hobby, I think it will be fine for quite a long time for me.

 

Depends on what your trying to do, cost between the two is really a moot point. Mig is very fast and looks pretty good, Tig is *very* slow but looks beautiful. If your welding motorcycle frames or intercooler piping get a Tig, if your doing normal chassis work on a car get the Mig.

 

FWIW my 110V Lincoln Mig works just fine for chassis work. So given the fact that you already have a Mig, just buy the Tig. Not much sense in having two Migs.

 

Also, I personally wouldn't buy a spool gun, they make the gun very heavy. The more dexterity you have with any welder, the better your welding will be.

 

All of the aluminum welding at work (high voltage substation bus work) is done with spool guns (the Miller ~$600 model). They can do amazing welds, which is why I have considered this an option.

 

Essentially I'm looking to get the ability to weld my suspension and other heavier welding tasks around the shop. I plan to install a turbo on the 521 in the next year or so, and will want to weld the aluminum tubing there... I could just as easily do it with steel... Hmm..

 

 

One piece of advice that I have for buying a TIG is to try and get one that is water cooled. I have used both an air and a water cooled setup and by far the water cooled is better. It welds much more consistently and there is no chance of burning up the torch, which is something to consider when you are doing thicker chassis type stuff. Another downside to the aircooled torch is that when doing a bunch of welding at one time, you must take a break every once in a while to let the torch cool.

 

I am a bit baised, but I really think that a TIG is much more versitile and produces a better finished product than a MIG.

 

This is the kind of info I am seeking. It seems like holding out for the water cooled Synchrowave is a good plan..

 

Steve you'd be pretty much wasting your money on both if your planing for aluminum. The wire feed is a fine machine but miller spool guns are junk. That tig is kinda weak for the money you'd prolly max it out on trying to weld anything of 3/16 aluminum. If ya want a nice mig seach for old miller single phase machines they spit wire 2 times better then any of these newer machinces. As far as tig welders go that 250 syncrowave is a bad mofo! Defenetley worth every penny.

 

Thanks for the info!

 

I just bought a new TIG and MIG combo.I could have gotten the spool gun but Im with everyone else its junk.If you already have a MIG stick with what ya got....why cause I have 3 MIG welders now.I started with flux core and then moved up to gas shielded and now I have the MIG and TIG combo.So bascically I have two welders I dont use that collect dust.I say keep your MIG you have and get the TIG.

 

What welder did you buy?

 

I think if you get the nicer mig setup, you won't really need or use the 110v unit. I turned my 110v rig on yesterday for the first time in 6mo? I could have easily shut off the dryer and plugged in the welder...but I didn't. Anyway...... the new machine will do the thin stuff with more control than the 110v machine.

 

My only concer with either of them is the duty cycle. More so with the tig. With the mig, you weld fast enough that you don't have the trigger pulled very long. But...with the tig....could be another story.

 

How many amps is the 110v unit you have? Have you thought about a different gas?

 

Don't forget....with either rig...you'll need to pony up for the argon bottle for the aluminum. Better figure that into the cost.

 

I'm already factoring in buying an Argon bottle for either welder. I currently have CO2 for my Miller. It is a 85A @ 20% 110v setup. Duty cycle seems like the spec that cost$ the dollars.

 

 

While the application is a little different, I use a Miller Maxstar at work, mostly for welding pipe and brackets and such (mostly carbon and stainless). The tig is nice for aluminum and stainless (and carbon also) and you can also do stick with it for heavier work, such as frame fab. (7018 low hy works well and is less "messy" than 6010) I have not had issues welding 6" .083 316L stainless tube and 4" sch.40 carbon steel pipe (ER70S) with an air cooled torch in a semi-production capacity. I personally prefer the foot pedal over the thumb control, but that is personal preference. The nice thing about the Maxstar is it's small and portable, but still pretty powerful and runs on 110.

 

Mark

 

Thanks for the info Mark. When I worked at a fluid milk processing plant a few years ago all of the sanitary welders that worked for me used compact Thermal Arc inverter TIG welders. They were ultra portable and produced great results. Granted they were very skilled craftsman.

 

I appreciate the insight guys. For now I think the revised scenario is....

 

I know I want a nice MIG welder. I think I'll wait on the TIG until I have the cash and time to hound the classifieds to find a good deal on a slightly used machine. With that said, I think I'll look at upgrading the MIG now. I can sell my 110v Miller to help fund the new welder. I think it should be easy to sell for $500 or so. My budget for a new welder is about $1500 not including the gas bottle. I admit in this case that I'm something of a brand whore. I like Miller. I know it will last me decades if I buy a Miller.

 

Given all of that, these are the models I'm looking at:

 

252 $2039 200A @ 60%

 

212 $1557 160A @ 60%

 

211 $1100 150A @ 40%

 

I really think the 211 model with 150A @ 40% duty cycle will probably do everything I'll ever need. I don't know what the additional $450 in the 212 or $940 in the 252 would get me that I would care about. Anyone care to chime in?

Edited November 11, 2009 by slodat

[slodat]

Well.. I've done some research and went to a welding supply shop today to see the welders. I'm leaning toward the Miller 252. It seems most welding stores are selling it for ~$2k. It will weld 1/2" steel in a single pass. Should I ever buy a push/pull spool gun, it is setup for that and has the current to make it work well. I think I will be very happy with the welder.

 

In talking to the A2Z people and mklotz today, I've decided to go with the 50A pilot arc plasma cutter.

[slodat]

Well.. I bought a barely used Miller Syncrowave 180SD. Got it complete and ready to weld. I am running the 60A 230V circuit today so I can get it powered up and see how things go TIG welding.

[jesusno2]

nice ya get a water cooler with it?

[slodat]

nice ya get a water cooler with it?

 

No, it's a 150A air cooled torch. I bought it because it was a good deal on a barely used machine. I can get a water cooled torch and cooler when I need it. For now, I'm just wanting to learn how to TIG weld.

[shifty]

Did ya sell your 110V Miller?

[jesusno2]

No, it's a 150A air cooled torch. I bought it because it was a good deal on a barely used machine. I can get a water cooled torch and cooler when I need it. For now, I'm just wanting to learn how to TIG weld.

 

yea i don't weld enough with my tig to need one either. I like the cooled torches cause their small! if ya do alot of aluminum is about the only time you really need a cooler. If your doing that much aluminum, a 180 amp machine would not be able to handle it anyways. that 180 miller is the first tig machine i ever used.

[slodat]

Did ya sell your 110V Miller?

 

Yes, CityHunter is the happy new owner..

 

yea i don't weld enough with my tig to need one either. I like the cooled torches cause their small! if ya do alot of aluminum is about the only time you really need a cooler. If your doing that much aluminum, a 180 amp machine would not be able to handle it anyways. that 180 miller is the first tig machine i ever used.

 

Nismopu was over today and after talking to him, I've decided to get a water cooled torch setup. I'm thinking about the Weldcraft Crafter Series 310a or the WP-20, which seems to be the one everyone recommends..

 

Then I have to figure out a cooler. Knowing the way I like to do things, I'll probably hold out for a good deal on a proper cooler setup. In the interim, I may use a 5gal bucket and a fuel pump..

[slodat]

Got the water cooled torch!!