baremetal spec paintjobs, sorta

[Gary]

yeo

 

just wondering something for when i kick into mine sometime soon... ive seen on a couple cars on the internet, chaps cutting back to baremetal, and just leaving it like that. i reckon it looks great, so i wanna do the same to my 510 when it gets going sometime soon (hopefully). i figured im tired of waiting to do everything properly with a full chassis resto and paint, i just want it on the road again :(

 

so! hows it done so it doesnt rust out in an instant? getting back to metal isnt a problem i can handle that easy... just what to do to sorta seal it? id imagine clear coats wouldnt adhere properly without paint/primer at least?

[72240z]

I love the look too. Ever since I saw the auto union.

You can clear bare metal just fine.

Could always rub brake fluid or wd40 etc into it once in a while too lol.

 

http://culturegarage.com/2008/02/19/the-beauty-of-bare-metal/

Edited August 3, 2009 by 72240z
I meant clear not clean

[Gary]

tuff lookin :D cool to show off full steel bodywork too, specially when rear quarters rust out like nothing else

[Skib]

clear coat it

[Guest DatsuNoob]

Once I tried to do the same thing on a steel VW valve cover, then clear coated it. It took a couple weeks, but it started getting little spotty areas of rust here and there. Not sure if i did it wrong, but looked pretty shithouse IMO :lol:. I think it looks tough, but honestly I'm tired of looking at my truck in bare metal, wanting to slap some paint on there real soon. I do like that one aussie dude's rust rising sun though :cool:

[Gary]

was thinking clear coat, but i dunno if they really adhere to baremetal?

 

the other thing too is with compressors and spray guns, is there any way to take all of the moisture out of the air before it passes through the gun? i know there's moisture traps, ive got one on mine but i wouldnt think it would take out enough to ensure any clearcoat i paint on wont have tiny moisture pockets :( unless i get a couple or something, will look into it i guess

 

perhaps pressure pack clear will do the trick :D

[72240z]

Why wouldn't clear adhere to metal?

 

Ya they have something, its called a drier lol. Properly sprayed in the proper environment you don't need one.

[zed]

I've tried this with a Landcruiser valve cover - tried oil, polish, spraying with laquer. All rusted. Ended up having it electro-plated...

[Gary]

nice, thanks for sharing :)

 

i think paint typically needs a form of surface primer to help adhesion and make it durable is all

 

the conditions ill be spraying in will likely be a garage :( one panel/section at a time, with a compressor and a gravity fed spray gun. not what most would call professional :D

 

i might hit panel beaters see if they got any sorta weird clear coats or nice rust preventatives or something. not sure why they would, given such things would probably be put in primers rather than top coat clears but never know hey!

[72240z]

You don't need a primer or paint prior to clear just the proper surface prep. You don't need a pro set up either Idk why you think that. A person can get pro spray results with cheap tools it just means more labor.

 

I think the reason people's experiments rust is that they didn't take care after. Regular clear alone is not a 100% sealer. That's why one of the reasons in a normal paint job you wax your car. If people regularly waxed their clear coated bare metal there would be no rust.

 

That aside there are different clears that seal. Por15 makes one.

Edited August 4, 2009 by 72240z

[dat620]

u can use a regular clear coat, u can also add tint to make it colored, kind of like a candy paint job, but regular automotive clear will work, just have to make sure metal is clean and has no types of oils or any contamenants on it, a really good wax and degreaser u can buy from any paint supply store will work, 3m has a real good one that we use on a daily basis here at the body shop..also make sure to use only clean towels/ rags that have no softener added when washed, best bet is to use the blue paint shop towels that u can get from any paint supply store, they r static and oil free.. hope this helps:) tom

[Duncan]

I've clear-coated some polished metal before and used a product called "Bulldog" which is an adhesion promoter. (Think of it as a clear primer)

 

I've only used it from a rattle can, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it sold in quart and gallon sized containers to be sprayed from a gun. I did some emblems on my '55 Caddie when I restored it, and they held up very well with no maintenance other than washing them occasionally.

 

Found a link to it, and it does come in rattle can, quart, and gallon sizes.

http://spaceagepaint.com/product_detail.aspx?id_product=8664

Edited August 4, 2009 by Duncan

[Gary]

awesome thanks for the advice :D

 

im pretty much as backyarder as you get, i know you dont need professional tools and the like to get the job done. i joke with mates about if i ever owned a v8 supercar or an F1 team, id be decked out in stanley tools instead of snapon :lol:

 

i know a chap who works in a paint lab, i dunno what he does but im sure he could point me to some names available in australia. happy to hear its about as simple as i thought itd be though :D just a matter of the right clear coats and the right preparation to get it done

[72240z]

Don't forget to post lots of pics :-).

[Gary]

tiny bit of progress

 

ive been driving about asking various people what can be done, and hanging about on another forum and listening to what they have to say also

 

the general theory behind clearcoat not working without eventually rusting, is that;

1. the paint isnt a seal. moisture can still get through and to baremetal underneath

2. rust inhibitors. the process rust undergoes (oxidisation) happens instantly, so as soon as you cut back, its begun. so you need a rust inhibitor to kill that process on your first coat, which is what primers usually have. they promote adhesion, and most also stop it rusting. as inhibitors arent usually opaque, clear primers arent really out there. well there's one, bulldog make one but they didnt feel the need to reply to my question to them about whether it'd work on bare steel. nothing they had in the way of description was overly confidence inspiring either, considering id want it shipped to australia too i thought it not worth the effort for now

 

what i did find however, was permalac. ive seen the promotional video, and it claims to do all the right things. i found a place in aus that stocks it so i got some sent over for a test or two

 

i found an old trunklid from a cressida i had and cut back two sections. the first one i used clearcoat (i had some lying about, thought id try it despite knowing it wont work), the second one i used permalac. it'll be left until both fully cure (probs a day or two), then i'll leave it outside hanging off my backyard fence so it's in the sun and weather. i'll spray em with water whenever i think to, and leave em there for a few months and see how either performs

 

will update with pics etc as we go

[steve g]

as a rule automotive clearcoats chemically adhere to their base... so its very difficult to get it to stick to metal even if its sanded and prepped for paint/primer etc... It would be interesting to see if a clear with flex additive would make a difference. Let us know how the experiment goes.

Bulldog is an adhesion promoter that chenically bonds to poly surfaces and leaves a semi tacky foundation for paint/primer/clear etc..... it wouldnt help much being used on bare metal

Edited November 13, 2009 by steve g

[72240z]

I agree with gary

 

The way I see it the main problem isn't getting it to stick. Blast it, DA it then hit it with PPG dx579 or an equivalent phosphate wash to eliminate all traces of rust. Clear does bond to paint but that doesn't mean it's NEEDED to work. People clear bare alum, steel, mag etc.. pieces all the time. Not just automotive but in a wide range of areas and products like bikes, bicycles, sorting equipment, aero yada yada

 

To me and like said the main problem is that any automotive clear is microscopically porous due to the curing process so its not going to last very long. Waxing on a very regular basis might prolong it but who knows by how long.

 

Powder coat clear is the best paint option imho because of that. You just have to find someone with a oven big enough. Even with that though there are issues, powder coat never really covers 100% and even if it did the slightest scratch would be the beginning of the end.

 

another non paint/inhibitor options like gibbs

http://www.roadsters.com/gibbs/

 

That shit is amazing. How long it would stand up and how cost effective it would be though is anyone's guess.

[Gary]

thats the kinda shit i'm after :D if permalac doesnt want to play, i'll see what i can do about getting me some gibbs action and see if that does the trick

 

will be posting results as they come, im expecting clear to last between 4 and 8 weeks, and the permalac to work for as long as i care to test it

[72240z]

Ya they are claiming 3+ years on some of those bare metal roadsters, pretty impressive. Who knows though how much abuse they take.

[Gary]

fair point hey, garage queens or dailies

 

to be honest id be happy with 1 year recoats. if i'm tricky about it it might work out not so tiresome

 

least theyre easy to pull apart :D

[fisch]

Great thread guys. Thanks for testing Gary and I look forward to the results.

[shocker6969]

this wont really work if you want to keep the bare metal look but to stop the rust permanently use por-15 it works great but is black

[72240z]

this wont really work if you want to keep the bare metal look but to stop the rust permanently use por-15 it works great but is black

 

[Gary]

hehe thanks for input, pays if you read thread though :D

 

 

thats the sorta testbed. yes its upside down, hanging the other way the surfaces arent really in the sun - my bad heh. melbourne is sorta handy too, we can have all seasons in a single day sometimes so hopefully it works in favour of test

 

the other marked bits are for other tests, one of which is to see what happens if i leave the surface for about an hour or so before coating (say when one is cutting back something as big as a chassis), and the other for another product if i can get my mitts on it

[Gary]

as of yesterday ive got another test going :D

 

a mate swung round to knock out some dings in his front bumper and one or two things on his front end after he bumped into a hilux accidentally. out with the mallets and various other things, bashin away and realised perhaps itd be wise to paint the bits we got down to baremetal since we were beating it up pretty good. i showed him the test i was doing with permalac, so we thought itd be funny to cut his bumper back and give it some permalovin :D the car is his daily, so should be good to see how it goes

 

he took a few pics with his phone, ill gettem and put em up