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1200 upgraded axle donors USA?


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#1 Faster7

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 08:43 AM

Are there any other axles that will drop under one of these? Looking for something a bit stronger, and something that I might actually be able to find. Some of the suggestions are RARE, and then all of the tech sites cover AUS/NZ donors.

I'll narrow a ford axle if I have to, but would rather put that money into other parts of the project.

#2 stilltwisted

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:26 AM

ford 8 inch is the cheepest and strongest for the money,,and if you used a big bearing axel the disk brakes are cheep too,, lots of gear choices also
i'm not a failure ,, i just keep succeeding at finding what i'm imcapable of finishing

#3 datzenmike

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 09:34 AM

You should fill out your signature fully so we know where you are.

You mention a Ford unit... just how much HP we talking here? There are lots of rear ends slightly stronger to majorly stronger than the stock 1200 without going to a monstrously heavy Ford.

What are the dimensions of the 1200 unit from rim to rim mounting surface? I assume it has coil springs, yes? And what is the stock size H-145?

Edited by datzenmike, 20 April 2009 - 09:40 AM.

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#4 Faster7

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:10 AM

ford 8 inch is the cheepest and strongest for the money,,and if you used a big bearing axel the disk brakes are cheep too,, lots of gear choices also


What is the cheap disk setup for the big bearing rears?




You should fill out your signature fully so we know where you are.

You mention a Ford unit... just how much HP we talking here? There are lots of rear ends slightly stronger to majorly stronger than the stock 1200 without going to a monstrously heavy Ford.

What are the dimensions of the 1200 unit from rim to rim mounting surface? I assume it has coil springs, yes? And what is the stock size H-145?



Added details.

~200hp/300ftlb but if I'm going to do it once, I'd like to be done with it up to perhaps 300hp/350ftlb. I'd really like to end up with ~3.2 to 3.6 ring and pinion ratio, with as short as the tires are and as much torque any other motor would make, it should pull it along just fine.

Stock 1200 measurements look to be about 51.5" WMS to WMS although I haven't measured my own yet, that sounds right. It should be a 145mm and it's leaf sprung. It looks like if I take an early ranger 7.5 or 8.8 (approx 57" wms to wms stock) and cut the longer side tube down to take another stock short side axle, it would put it around 54". With the common higher offset wheels, I think I can make that work.

#5 ggzilla

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 06:01 PM

300ftlb [to] 350ftlb

You need at least an 8.8" (bigger than Datsun pickup differential). Anything smaller is not recommended. Ford used the 8.8 when the Mustang went from 275 lb.ft. to 300 lb. ft. Technically they could have used a Ford 8", but the 8.8 is stronger and lighter.

* 8.8 is 15% lighter and almost as strong as 9"
* 9" is cheaper, buy an assembly from some old ford, chop-saw it and reweld it yourself. Buy two new axles of the appropriate length.

Datsun 1200 rear axle assembly width is 1305 mm drum to drum.
Here today gone tomorrow

#6 DRIVEN

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:50 AM

-I am told that Datsun Roadster rearends are a bolt-in. I haven't thrown a tape on one but it would hold up if not really abused. If it really does bolt in it would be the easiest swap.
-Ford 8" is OK but getting tough to find. There was a version in the Maverick that has 4 lug pattern if that is important. Probably have to narrow it and buy new axles. Limited-slip options are expensive but have bearing retained axles and drop out center.
-8.8 is stronger, lighter, cheaper and most common. Many Mustang applications are limited-slip and have disk brakes and 4 lugs. Ratios vary greatly. Check Explorers and Crown Vics too. Will probably have to be narrowed and have C-clip axles.
-Another cheap and available option is Toyota pickup. They are tough and have good aftermarket support. Bearing retained axles and drop out center like 8" and 9" Fords. 5 lug, though. I guess if it has to be narrowed new axles could have 4 lug.

Edited by DRIVEN, 21 April 2009 - 07:07 AM.


#7 Faster7

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:56 AM

You need at least an 8.8" (bigger than Datsun pickup differential). Anything smaller is not recommended. Ford used the 8.8 when the Mustang went from 275 lb.ft. to 300 lb. ft. Technically they could have used a Ford 8", but the 8.8 is stronger and lighter.

* 8.8 is 15% lighter and almost as strong as 9"
* 9" is cheaper, buy an assembly from some old ford, chop-saw it and reweld it yourself. Buy two new axles of the appropriate length.

Datsun 1200 rear axle assembly width is 1305 mm drum to drum.



Noted. I know that I'll never need the big 31 spline axles that come in the most common cheap 8.8's (explorer/f150).... and probably won't ever launch hard enough to hurt the ford 7.5 ring and pinion or an aftermarket limited slip carrier. But if I build it as a 7.5 and DO get to where I'm breaking it, I could plug the same 28 spline axles and all of the brake hardware into a cut down explorer/ranger 8.8 down the road if I did have issues. So I guess whatever I come across first on the cheap will be the winner.

Keeping with the low cost approach, now I guess I need to look into what I can swap up front to get a bit more brake, and convert to 5x4.5" at the same time.

#8 ggzilla

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 06:12 PM

Ford 7.5"
Datsun H190 (7.49")

These are good for about 285 lb. ft. max.

Consider a Ford 8". Many already have 4on4.5 axles to fit Datsun wheels including 280Z wheels. Look for early Falcon, Mustang, or Mavericks for donors.
Here today gone tomorrow

#9 69FJWagon

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 11:52 AM

Ford 7.5"
Datsun H190 (7.49")

These are good for about 285 lb. ft. max.

Consider a Ford 8". Many already have 4on4.5 axles to fit Datsun wheels including 280Z wheels. Look for early Falcon, Mustang, or Mavericks for donors.


most of the 4 lug early fords were strait 6 engines and came with a ford 7" the svo turbo mustangs had 7.5" rears the 8.8 is just as strong as a 9" in most applications (buddys drag/street car 600whp still uses 8.8) I would try a H190 out of a truck and see if it lives Finelines truck makes probably around 250whp and hasnt had any issues in the year he has beat on it with the 2.2 turbo monster
www.ermish-racing.com

#10 ggzilla

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:49 PM

250hp is irrelevant. Differentials are rated for torque, not HP.
Faster7 said "300ftlb [to] 350ftlb" meaning an H190 is too weak for it. Yes it might hold up for a while.
Here today gone tomorrow

#11 compression

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 05:41 AM

whatever you get you are going to have to narrow it. The 1200 axle is TINY.

Engine output is one thing, tire choice is another. If you plan on having 300ft-lb, with 155 bias-ply tires, then the 1200 axle is probably fine. If you plan on going with wide rims and hi-perf tires, then that puts you in another ball park.
There is nothing that is "bolt-in". anything worth a damn is going to require some fab work.
You might consider a 1st-gen RX-7. The GSL-SE version of that car came with solid axle, disc brakes, and a nice LSD. The gsl-se axles might be getting hard to find, I dont know.

Word of warning:
To make a 1200 really fly, you only need about 200 rwhp.....

Aaron S.
Portland, OR
 


#12 Faster7

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 10:51 AM

whatever you get you are going to have to narrow it. The 1200 axle is TINY.

Engine output is one thing, tire choice is another. If you plan on having 300ft-lb, with 155 bias-ply tires, then the 1200 axle is probably fine. If you plan on going with wide rims and hi-perf tires, then that puts you in another ball park.
There is nothing that is "bolt-in". anything worth a damn is going to require some fab work.
You might consider a 1st-gen RX-7. The GSL-SE version of that car came with solid axle, disc brakes, and a nice LSD. The gsl-se axles might be getting hard to find, I dont know.

Word of warning:
To make a 1200 really fly, you only need about 200 rwhp.....


That's no joke! Initially it should be in the ~180FWHP/ ~210 torque range, but will be just a few parts away from going over 300ft lbs of torque.

The GSL-SE stuff is getting scarce, and I'd be stuck with ~4.08 or so gears. Ring is about 7" on the GSL-SE, so not very strong. They also sport small 26 spline 27mm axles , vs 28 spline 32mm axles on the small ford 7.5/8.8

Tire choice is likely going to let any axle I pick survive, but if I get aggressive and have it spin and then hook, I don't want to have to worry about it.

It looks like with all factory parts (so less than $200 spent including disk brake conversion) I can make 7.5 or 8.8 ford rears come out to ~53.6, 54.6, and 55.6" widths WMS to WMS. I'll be playing around with wheel widths and offsets this weekend to pick out which of these is going to be best.

Edited by Faster7, 24 April 2009 - 11:01 AM.


#13 DRIVEN

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 09:13 AM

CA swap? or is it top secret?

#14 Faster7

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 01:07 PM

CA swap? or is it top secret?


Still up in the air! I have 3 CA18ET's, but will probably go that route in the sedan.

Probably a ridiculously compact, aluminum headed, pushrod V6.

#15 datsunfreak

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 01:59 PM

Keeping with the low cost approach, now I guess I need to look into what I can swap up front to get a bit more brake, and convert to 5x4.5" at the same time.



'79-82 210 lower control arms, ball joints, T/C rods and steering arms

'82-83 280ZX strut housings

'85-89 300ZX rotors (5-lug 11" rotors) and calipers



You might be able to use the 300ZX strut housings to save money/hunting, just not sure if they bolt up to the 210 steering arms. I know for sure the 280ZX struts do.

It's your car, just don't ruin it.

 

It's also not my money, so i'll suggest the most expensive option. 

 

 


#16 Faster7

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 06:18 AM

I'm in luck... the first cheap ranger rear I get is an 8.8, 3.27 geared and traction lock equipped. Win win win. :)

Bad news is that since it's later than a 1992 I'll only be able to get it down to ~54.6" width by sticking in the early short side axle in the long tube. I bet I can still make that work with proper wheel selection.

#17 DRIVEN

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 06:30 AM

Nice. I seem to remember reading about that short axle/long tube trick in Car Craft or some other mag. Are the Bronco II axles even shorter? or do they have different splines?

#18 Faster7

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 06:51 AM

Nice. I seem to remember reading about that short axle/long tube trick in Car Craft or some other mag. Are the Bronco II axles even shorter? or do they have different splines?


Yes, since lots of the car ford 8/9" have different length shafts, you can do the same to some extent. But the early ranger short side is VERY short (26.25") so it can really get narrow when you stab that axle into both sides.

The bronco II is a PITA. Same splines/etc. However the long side is the same as the long side on early rangers (so the same as mustang, which makes them quite a target at the salvage yard) but then the short side is even longer than the short side on this 92+ axle, so nothing REALLY short in it, stock.

I can get a complete good bronco II axle cheap enough that I may be trying to trade it to someone with an early narrow ranger so that I can get the short side shaft cheap. This bronco II axle has 3.45's and is also traction-lock, so I bet I run into someone with an open diff that would be up for the trade.

#19 EPTXDatsun

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:57 PM

Is the 1305mm measurement taken inside or outside the drums?

#20 Morrisun

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:06 AM

51.375 inches measurement, is outside to outside with the drums in place.