jrbd10 Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 alright fair enough. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 I hate to break it to you but Lotus means:Lots Of Trouble Usaully Serious Stay Away, they look nice and handle better, but they have bad habits jrbd10: Just think 'High Maintenance Girl Friend.' or 'if it has heels or wheels... it's trouble.' Quote Link to comment
defdes Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Are the new Elise's really that much trouble? I have not read up on them, but they are so plentiful now, I would expect them to be somewhat road worthy. I have a friend with one who is currently getting it super charged, I think it will come out with about 400hp....which is a pretty whopping P/W ratio.:eek: Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Are the new Elise's really that much trouble? I have not read up on them, but they are so plentiful now, I would expect them to be somewhat road worthy. I have a friend with one who is currently getting it super charged, I think it will come out with about 400hp....which is a pretty whopping P/W ratio.:eek: The new ones aren't that much trouble mechanically as the old ones are, it's a generic drive train. Their problem stems from the fact they are totaled out in a 5mph crash. It's like driving a $40k piece of glass. Quote Link to comment
jrbd10 Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 ok makes sense but come on what about some upgrade ideas mechanically for the Z31! Quote Link to comment
Bleach Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 I'm not trying to be a smart ass or disrespectful but you said "With a stock intake manifold and internals you will not see any results from the header install." and your wrong. I feel that is important to note when he seems bent on following what you advise. True, saying no results was not exactly accurate. It will make some change to the engine. The driving results from the modification would be negligible. Not to mention all the added headache of rust and exhaust leaks you'll have with headers vs the cast manifold.The headers do make a minor change in the engine but by themselves the final result is not even 1 tenth of a second in a quarter mile. In normal street driving you don't want an engine set up for all high rpm power. (and the VG30 isn't really a high revving engine) Without having to go into it in detail I basically was trying to state that it won't make a noticeable difference. You feeling the difference in all these cars isn't proof that the headers alone made the difference. That's what we call the butt dyno. Replacing a stock catalytic converter that's plugged could have been a large portion of the change. other engines that have a great flowing head and run high rpms pump a lot more air out the exhaust. My point on "other" engines was that a VQ35HR running 7500 rpm could see +8whp from headers alone. (assuming you're already running aftermarket exhaust) Where a SOHC VG30e at 5400 rpm might see a +6hp increase with a larger pipe, then add headers for maybe another 2hp and -5 foot pounds of torque. End result is about .06 faster in the quarter mile due to the headers. I wasn't going to type all that out except for nitpickers like yourself. Then again, I'm not a Z31 expert. Check out these links on what to do for a VG30e N/A http://z31.com/mods/exhaust.shtml http://z31.com/mods/intake.shtml Power is really made on the intake, not on the exhaust. Its not like there are gobs of horsepower just waiting to be released by running open headers or a huge exhaust pipe. I generally advise exhaust on the smaller size. 2.25" is plenty. The website above says 2.25 to 2.5" Newer cars can run 300hp turbo engines from the factory and still only have 2.25" exhaust pipes. I hear so many people to this day talk about how they put on a 3" exhaust on their L16 in a 510 and it added so much power! - - - If you're looking for advice on what to bolt on for more power, there really isn't much! You can buy all sorts of toys and not many will make a huge difference. The website above mentions a throttle body that is only 6mm larger than stock and adding a cat-back exhaust. That's basically it for the NA engine. maybe a different intake manifold. I was reading somewhere that the pathfinder intake really didn't make a difference in power. If you're not willing to do head work then you're not going to be changing the power band of the VG30 a whole lot. Check out some video on youtube of the 2nd gen maxima. Intake and exhaust work was done on those and they put down 135whp Quote Link to comment
jrbd10 Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 fair enough Quote Link to comment
Wharf Rat Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 After all that said, just put a glass muffler on it, a small K&N cone air filter and then you sound nice and feel faster because you hear that nice V6 Purr ... no kidding :) Also make sure your shocks and brakes are safe. You will love that car :D Quote Link to comment
jrbd10 Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Yea and a bomb sound system! with the enigne adds to the fun! the tokico lowering kit, the K&N filter, ignition wires, hawk brake pads all around, spark plugs, (which brings up iridium? what do you think?) a nice cat and maybe a flowmaster or a fart can...maybe ill decide when all is done and do exhust last Quote Link to comment
Hyphy Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 having done some of my own research on the VG, albeit an 'et', the n/a version is rather stunted unless you do major mods. Minor mods add up when done right, but with 3 cars and no cash I wouldnt sweat em. Intake, e-fan, replace cat back piping with a bolt on turndown so u can swap back for smog reasons...Its all rather mundane and isnt worth the cost. A project thats not smog exempt is a pain... my $0.02.... if you really want to make that motor faster, put it in something lighter..like a 510 lol sell it find a turbo version... Quote Link to comment
jrbd10 Posted April 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 hahaha ok makes sense...well in that case i guess i will do the sound and the little things Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) True, saying no results was not exactly accurate. It will make some change to the engine. The driving results from the modification would be negligible. Not to mention all the added headache of rust and exhaust leaks you'll have with headers vs the cast manifold.The headers do make a minor change in the engine but by themselves the final result is not even 1 tenth of a second in a quarter mile. In normal street driving you don't want an engine set up for all high rpm power. (and the VG30 isn't really a high revving engine) Without having to go into it in detail I basically was trying to state that it won't make a noticeable difference. You feeling the difference in all these cars isn't proof that the headers alone made the difference. That's what we call the butt dyno. Replacing a stock catalytic converter that's plugged could have been a large portion of the change. I actually can't believe your saying some of this. I'm going to say for like the 4th time in the many cases I have driven a vg with headers the result was/is not negligible, it is noticeable in positive ways. I would take a "butt dyno" over just guessing like you are. As I said my truck and the z31 were otherwise stock, so if not header alone Idk what magic it was. I hae friends with z31's too some with headers and stock, some without. I'm not just throwing shit out there. Cast iron manifolds don't rust? Coated headers do? I guess every one I ever saw in my life was a fluke then. Not even a 1/10th of a second in the 1/4, can you tell me any one thing that would be on that engine? I bet even full exhaust from header to muffler would struggle for that. Headers are not set up just for high rpm performance, they do their job at all rpm levels just at different levels depending on. Just like very single other aspect of an engine...... other engines that have a great flowing head and run high rpms pump a lot more air out the exhaust. My point on "other" engines was that a VQ35HR running 7500 rpm could see +8whp from headers alone. (assuming you're already running aftermarket exhaust) Where a SOHC VG30e at 5400 rpm might see a +6hp increase with a larger pipe, then add headers for maybe another 2hp and -5 foot pounds of torque. End result is about .06 faster in the quarter mile due to the headers. I wasn't going to type all that out except for nitpickers like yourself. Again your using something as a reason that effects every other aspect as well. Yes the head dictates the gain to be had, but not just with the header, with anything you would do to the motor, so by your logic it doesn't make sense to do anything to the engine because the head isn't high flow. Again your also just guessing on the stats, and in a way to support your side. Keep saying "alone" too or "just", of course JUST headers isn't going to yield some crazy gain, NO single mod on that engine short of nos or forced induction will, I don't see the point. Any mod becomes more effective in conjunction with others in support. It's not fair to call me a nit picker. You made a statement that contradicts years of automotive development and I'm a nitpicker for saying something about it? Then again, I'm not a Z31 expert. Check out these links on what to do for a VG30e N/A http://z31.com/mods/exhaust.shtml http://z31.com/mods/intake.shtml I'm not either but I have a lot of books, school and experience under my belt that says your WAY off base. We can agree to disagree though, it wasn't my goal to get into a pissing match with an admin, I just truly believe your very wrong. Power is really made on the intake, not on the exhaust. Its not like there are gobs of horsepower just waiting to be released by running open headers or a huge exhaust pipe. I generally advise exhaust on the smaller size. 2.25" is plenty. The website above says 2.25 to 2.5" Newer cars can run 300hp turbo engines from the factory and still only have 2.25" exhaust pipes. I hear so many people to this day talk about how they put on a 3" exhaust on their L16 in a 510 and it added so much power! I agree, power isn't made on the exhaust but what it does is ALLOW the engine to make the power it does. The exhaust is VERY important on a n/a car, back pleasure and exhaust pulse tuning can make or break it. That's why headers matter, that's why the correct exhaust diameter matters, cat, muffler w/e it ALL effects the power made by the motor and all can effect it in a positive way done correctly. I couldn't agree more with hearing people say that. In actuality it just murders their engines low end, without gaining a thing in the high end. - - - If you're looking for advice on what to bolt on for more power, there really isn't much! You can buy all sorts of toys and not many will make a huge difference. The website above mentions a throttle body that is only 6mm larger than stock and adding a cat-back exhaust. That's basically it for the NA engine. maybe a different intake manifold. I was reading somewhere that the pathfinder intake really didn't make a difference in power. If you're not willing to do head work then you're not going to be changing the power band of the VG30 a whole lot. Check out some video on youtube of the 2nd gen maxima. Intake and exhaust work was done on those and they put down 135whp Again I agree, that's why the very 1st thing I suggested was turbo swap. Idk why everyone just ignored it. You can spend a grand on a n/a vg30e to make 20 REAL hp more or you can spend the same to make 50 under boost. With the option to make more.... As you say they dyno some very non impressive numbers. The only way I would ever run one n/a is to build a 3.5 vg30e and that would be just to have fun, it still wouldn't make more then 250 without some kind of cheater. Edited April 7, 2009 by 72240z Quote Link to comment
ppeters914 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Geez, that's the second free Z31 I've seen here. Where's mine? Quote Link to comment
Hyphy Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 The down side to a turbo swap...finding the parts. Best option is to find a turbo z31 for sale....in which case it is now easier to leave it in the car, unless its heavily damaged elsewhere, and make the turbo car the main focus. either way, this guys clearly got plenty of cars already and very little fundage. so that outa the question most likely. Quote Link to comment
jrbd10 Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 yup! too many cars not enough money. I think I'll go the dumb way and just build up with what I have which will be the N/A and thats fun too. Quote Link to comment
jrbd10 Posted April 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 ok so i should be back on monday 20th and have pics up and ready around the 21 Quote Link to comment
jrbd10 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 so if i have 600 to burn what should i burn it on? Suspension-Lowering kit from tokico Audio- Alpine head with Infinity componant setup Wheels and tires-REALLY like this RPM R-505 Black Gloss rim (18in) Quote Link to comment
Bleach Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Look for used parts to spread your money further even the cheapest wheels and tires will run $600 or more new by themselves. Quote Link to comment
jrbd10 Posted April 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 even the cheapest wheels and tires will run $600 or more new by themselves. well thats what i mean...the budget will be more that 600, but as a first upgrade i have 600 to burn. my question is what do i do first? im leaning more towards suspension or audio. Quote Link to comment
hoov100 Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I actually can't believe your saying some of this. I'm going to say for like the 4th time in the many cases I have driven a vg with headers the result was/is not negligible, it is noticeable in positive ways. I would take a "butt dyno" over just guessing like you are. As I said my truck and the z31 were otherwise stock, so if not header alone Idk what magic it was. I hae friends with z31's too some with headers and stock, some without. I'm not just throwing shit out there. Cast iron manifolds don't rust? Coated headers do? I guess every one I ever saw in my life was a fluke then. Not even a 1/10th of a second in the 1/4, can you tell me any one thing that would be on that engine? I bet even full exhaust from header to muffler would struggle for that. Headers are not set up just for high rpm performance, they do their job at all rpm levels just at different levels depending on. Just like very single other aspect of an engine...... Again your using something as a reason that effects every other aspect as well. Yes the head dictates the gain to be had, but not just with the header, with anything you would do to the motor, so by your logic it doesn't make sense to do anything to the engine because the head isn't high flow. Again your also just guessing on the stats, and in a way to support your side. Keep saying "alone" too or "just", of course JUST headers isn't going to yield some crazy gain, NO single mod on that engine short of nos or forced induction will, I don't see the point. Any mod becomes more effective in conjunction with others in support. It's not fair to call me a nit picker. You made a statement that contradicts years of automotive development and I'm a nitpicker for saying something about it? I'm not either but I have a lot of books, school and experience under my belt that says your WAY off base. We can agree to disagree though, it wasn't my goal to get into a pissing match with an admin, I just truly believe your very wrong. I agree, power isn't made on the exhaust but what it does is ALLOW the engine to make the power it does. The exhaust is VERY important on a n/a car, back pleasure and exhaust pulse tuning can make or break it. That's why headers matter, that's why the correct exhaust diameter matters, cat, muffler w/e it ALL effects the power made by the motor and all can effect it in a positive way done correctly. I couldn't agree more with hearing people say that. In actuality it just murders their engines low end, without gaining a thing in the high end. Again I agree, that's why the very 1st thing I suggested was turbo swap. Idk why everyone just ignored it. You can spend a grand on a n/a vg30e to make 20 REAL hp more or you can spend the same to make 50 under boost. With the option to make more.... As you say they dyno some very non impressive numbers. The only way I would ever run one n/a is to build a 3.5 vg30e and that would be just to have fun, it still wouldn't make more then 250 without some kind of cheater. I installed headers on my stock z31 NA and noticed no difference, headers alone wont do crap, as even stock manifolds flow more then the heads will, now add a gutted intake, more timing, bigger coil some cam timing lighter flywheel better clutch and some shorter gears and THEN headers would have an affect, even then what it affects you wont feel if anything it will feel slower. Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) I installed headers on my stock z31 NA and noticed no difference, headers alone wont do crap, as even stock manifolds flow more then the heads will, now add a gutted intake, more timing, bigger coil some cam timing lighter flywheel better clutch and some shorter gears and THEN headers would have an affect, even then what it affects you wont feel if anything it will feel slower. Ya your right, I was delirious and didn't fee anything the bunch of times I added them. My friends too...... W/E I don't care. Edited April 14, 2009 by 72240z Quote Link to comment
hoov100 Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Ya your right, I was delirious and didn't fee anything the bunch of times I added them. My friends too...... W/E I don't care. i had the same feeling when i de-screened the MAF on my z32, turns out it didnt do crap on the DYNOJET, you ASSDYNO doesnt mean shit, every time i ride my R1 i swear its going slower and slower each time, then when i fill up at chevron its alot faster again!! :lol: Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 i had the same feeling when i de-screened the MAF on my z32, turns out it didnt do crap on the DYNOJET, you ASSDYNO doesnt mean shit, every time i ride my R1 i swear its going slower and slower each time, then when i fill up at chevron its alot faster again!! :lol: KK enjoy Quote Link to comment
hoov100 Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 KK enjoyI'm not trying to bring you down or insult you, but the facts are the facts. Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 I'm not trying to bring you down or insult you, but the facts are the facts. Appreciated but there were no facts listed only your opinion, which I don't care for or about. Your welcome to it and to post it but I said my piece. Nothing else I care to argue or add to it. Quote Link to comment
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